The Minimalist Educator Podcast
A podcast about paring down to focus on the purpose and priorities in our roles.
The Minimalist Educator Podcast
Episode 083: Mentoring That Matters with Dr. Amanda Brueggeman
Dr. Amanda Brueggeman shares insights from her research and experience with student-centered mentoring, a collaborative approach that keeps students at the heart of new teachers' learning. She explains how this philosophy contrasts with traditional mentoring methods and offers strategies for providing effective support that helps retain teachers in the profession.
• The number one reason teachers leave the profession is lack of support
• Traditional mentoring uses teacher-centered approaches while student-centered mentoring focuses on collaborative partnerships
• Asking strategic questions across different support categories (emotional, communication, instruction) is more effective than generic check-ins
• Both mentors and mentees can learn from each other in an effective mentoring relationship
• Mindset greatly impacts teaching practice, with growth-oriented teachers being more open to collaboration and innovation
• Time-blocking is an essential strategy for managing the many demands on educators' time
For resources and more information on student-centered mentoring, visit amandabrueggemann.com.
This episode is sponsored by ACBrueggeman Consulting: The Home for Student-Centered Mentoring and Educator Support.
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Welcome to the Minimalist Educator podcast, where the focus is on a less is more approach to education. Join your hosts, christine Arnold and Tammy Musiawski, authors of the Minimalist Teacher and your School Leadership. Edit a minimalist approach to rethinking your school ecosystem each week as they explore practical ways to simplify your work, sharpen your focus and amplify what matters most so you can teach and lead with greater clarity, purpose and joy.
Speaker 2:On this week's episode, we are joined by Dr Amanda Brueggemann to talk about student-centered coaching. Her pare-down pointer is to time block all of those important tasks. Dr Amanda Brueggemann has dedicated over 20 years to education, beginning her career as an elementary classroom teacher and later serving as a literacy coach. She trains instructional coaches in student-centred coaching and provides professional learning for new teacher mentors, drawing from her book Student-Centred Mentoring Keeping Students at the Heart of New Teachers' Learning. She earned her doctorate in teacher leadership from Maryville University, where she also serves as an adjunct professor leadership from Maryville University, where she also serves as an adjunct professor. She is working on her upcoming book Habits of Resilient Learners Strategies for Excelling in Challenging Times, with co-authors Lindsay Prendergast and Piper Lee.
Speaker 3:Welcome everyone to today's episode of the Minimalist Educator Podcast. Today, christine and I are talking with Dr Amanda Brueggemann, who is an educational consultant and author of the book Student-Centered Mentoring, and so we're excited to talk to her today because this episode is going to be very timely with the start of the new school year and providing support for teachers as well as students. Welcome to the show, amanda.
Speaker 4:Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to get to join you all today.
Speaker 3:Thank you for being here. We are excited to talk about this topic because, well, for lots of reasons, but the student-centered mentoring piece of your writing is particularly interesting. Centered mentoring piece of your writing is particularly interesting. But before we get into that, can you just tell us a little bit about how you kind of came to that piece of into your expertise, like what led you to that?
Speaker 4:Well, my background started off as an elementary classroom teacher. I started off doing fourth and fifth grade and I had the pleasure of getting to have a couple of student teachers and supervise, through some adjunct work I had done at the time, some newer teachers, and then I went into my role as a literacy coach for our school district, where at the time I was across four of our buildings. I was a district coach. We had the pleasure of being one of the fastest growing districts in the state of Missouri and lots of new teachers came along with that right. And it also came with the uncovering of some needs that we had around mentoring and trying to provide some mentor support. Provide some mentor support.
Speaker 4:Whenever I first started, our new teachers were assigned a mentor, but they were just kind of given like a checklist and kind of a guidebook of like here's some things, and so that's where I started really thinking about how can we provide support for new teachers? That also includes the support for mentors, but yet in a way that's different, because the traditional, you know, way of mentoring is a very teacher-centered approach and I felt like we had to do something different because at that time we were still, you know, needing to think about how do we retain teachers. And then you know, as we all know, that has since increased as a need is retaining teachers in our profession. And so through that research though that I did that work around like thinking about support for mentoring, I found that the number one reason why a lot of teachers leave our profession is because they don't feel supported. And it could be a range of support, it could be a support from their colleagues, from their administrators. It also could be familiar, familial, from families and parents and that support that they need.
Speaker 4:But that was the number one reason actually and so that's kind of where this came to birth is that I just felt like I needed to try something different. So and I had a lot of fun with getting to do that, getting to work with a lot of different teachers and so I just recently decided to step out and do just consulting, but I still adjunct, so I actually teach an undergrad class, a master's class and a doctoral class, so that way I can still have a lot of hand and thinking and talking around different ideas with teachers, future teachers especially. That's probably actually my most fun group.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's. That's very awesome. It's great to hear that you're doing that important work of looking into how we can keep more of our colleagues in the profession for longer. Very important work. Can you share with us like a really special moment from your mentoring experiences that has really stuck with you?
Speaker 4:There's so many Because I have to say for myself even, it's probably been one of the best things to have like a mentor, to have someone to collaborate with.
Speaker 4:So, for myself, like, I have a lot of different ones, but I would actually probably want to highlight back when I started thinking about how can we incorporate more support for mentors.
Speaker 4:My partnership that I had to work with Natalie and Rodney were probably two of the like groundbreakers on trying out different strategies and ideas that I focus on in the book, and I actually have stories from them in the book as well, and I'll never forget us sitting around the table talking about, like, how we can support Natalie and some of her reading with her students, and also hearing Rodney asking questions as well and thinking about how he could learn alongside Natalie too, and I'll never forget him sharing like, yeah, I think that's great that you're working on Natalie.
Speaker 4:I think it was like with her lessons and stuff at the start of her workshop time, but he's like, but I feel like I need some support you know as well towards like, how do I debrief with kids? How do we like celebrate our work and our reading growth? And so I was just like I don't know. That's always stuck with me, thinking that mentors can learn alongside the new teachers that they work with and just being open, I guess. So I'll just never forget some of those conversations having with them and I've gotten to have the pleasure of so many other mentors that have been very similar in that thought process, as they've been open to thinking about. The approach that I showcase is, like you know, the mentoring support is not just for the new teachers, it's for us as well.
Speaker 3:Like you know, the our roles, we can sometimes feel siloed or alone, and it's important to have your network to be able to like, bounce ideas and reflect with, which helps me to, you know, as a coach and mentor, just thinking through like, oh, maybe I should have approached this in a different way or this really hit the nail on the head this time. So, and then when that impact, you see the impact in the classroom, it's, it's amazing. One of the strategies that you mentioned quite a bit is asking questions as a practice, and that I mean I love asking questions and, like some of our background, christine and I have, you know, teach, have taught in IB schools, and the inquiry process is the way you teach, and so developing and asking the right types of questions and all types of questions is a skill that has to be developed as a coach and mentor, and so can you talk about that within your practice?
Speaker 4:So I'm glad you mentioned that, like both, coach, mentor because for me, especially my 10 years as an instructional coach, that's, I think, the skill I continually worked towards developing as a coach, not just in my work with new teachers, but also just for myself, you know, professionally and learning in my conversations, which is why I focus so heavily on it as one of the strategies of the book as well and student-centered mentoring. That philosophy it's also weeded throughout all the other strategies, because it's just such a powerful skill that we can develop, and one of the things that I learned early on with working with different partnerships and mentors is they felt like they needed to have the answers for their new teachers, but rather how can we work alongside them and ask the questions to put the learning in their hands? Because it's kind of like with students as well, like if we take away the learning for them, are they going to truly transfer that skill or strategy or idea. And so I feel like for us to be able to truly embody that philosophy as teachers in the classroom. We also have to do that whenever we're having conversations with our colleagues, and so I focus on it as a strategy in the text as more so how do we ask questions to determine the appropriate type of support? And I actually have like a quadrant it's actually more like a compass that I kind of related to like directions, like you have your different categories of support, and so, thinking about how mentors can ask new teachers questions around emotional support, which is your north I think that's like a very important one and thinking about also asking questions around communication, like that's another one that's really important.
Speaker 4:Of course, instruction is also really key as well, and I think that by doing the questioning around like those categories, it helps them to be more intentional, more focused, more specific, rather than that general, just like how's it going or what do you need help with?
Speaker 4:Right, because sometimes you know new teachers, they don't know what they don't know yet, and so it's like hard to decide like what questions to ask. And then teachers even a couple of new teachers have taken that practice and actually incorporated that in their classrooms and tried like the directional kind of areas with their kids. It's actually something that Piper Lindsay and I are incorporating in one of the habits of a new book that we're working on, habits for Resilient Learners, and because it just has a lot of power, I think behind it by being more intentional and open with kind of different ideas of us talking through things. So that's kind of where I think the asking questions is the start of, but then within all the other strategies it's weaved throughout because, like I mentioned, I think questioning is such an important skill that we could all use.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that sounds really interesting. I'd love to hear more about it. So we're talking about phrasing really good questions themselves and knowing how to leverage that for the different kinds of support. Do you think the way that you ask questions or the timing of when you're asking questions also plays a really big role in the whole mentoring approach as well?
Speaker 4:Oh, of course, you know I think that you hit on something really important on like that timing. You're going to probably want to come out the gate asking clarifying questions to maybe have a better understanding of what maybe the new teachers tried, or teachers what they've tried in their classroom with their students. So I think it kind of dominoes into all of that. But then you have to be open to listening to what are some of those types of needs, because you know I've helped support the partnerships where they can take that compass in like a table and have different ideas that they can talk through and ask questions like where do you think you might need some support in? But you could also take it a different approach of clarifying and just saying you know what is something that you've been working on today and have a more of an idea of you know where they're trying something out and or you know maybe something that didn't go well and then you can listen in for where the areas of need might be.
Speaker 4:So I think that that's an important component of that is also just listening and hearing what they're having to say. And then you mentioned too, like timing, and I say that not just in the beginning, but I think it's also important to ask questions throughout, you know, to help learn alongside them. Now, going back to our point that we've made earlier, is, you know, is there a moment where we can learn something from a new teacher and something they've tried? Or by problem solving? You know, a certain need that they may have, because it's very possible that something that they've had happen in their classroom may not have happened with us yet in our classrooms, but it could right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's interesting to think of it that way too, like things that I often make the assumption that, oh, I experienced this in my classroom. You probably have innovative mindset, which, depending on a teacher's experience or background, you know we're all in different places with our mindsets, and so I'd love to hear about your experience with just working with newer teachers and what kind of thinking patterns arise around their own support that they're getting, but then also what that looks like and sounds like in their classroom experience.
Speaker 4:Yes, so mindset, honestly, is a very big topic to think through with that, because I think you can go through a learning mindset as, like one category. I also can look at it as, in that you know, positive mindset and like that hope and willingness to continue to move forward as being important, and so there's a couple of different directions there to go with the learning mindset. I think I start with first, because you mentioned the strategy that I have in here around like growing an innovative mindset, and I kind of have it like as a progression based off of George Kouros' work as well as Carol Dweck kind of in there, with that growth mindset being as part of that. But I think the opposite end of the spectrum of those two is that fixed mindset, and what I sometimes sense with some even experienced teachers is that they might have more of that fixed mindset in the sense of okay, I've learned a whole bunch of things already. Fixed mindset in the sense of, okay, I've learned a whole bunch of things already, I just want to keep doing this because it seems to be working, rather than there's always room for growth and change to happen and so we can always be continually learning, and so I think that's where that's kind of a big piece. And so when you look at that as kind of like on a balanced scale, you're also, if you're more in that fixed mindset, you're more negative, you're more unwilling or also can get down very quickly or very easily, and so I think that can really impact your demeanor, it can really much impact your willingness to want to keep trying and problem solve, whereas the other end of the spectrum that I've seen a lot is, as teachers grow towards that more growth and innovator side, they're more hopeful, they're more willing to ask questions, they're more willing to learn in that space as well, alongside others.
Speaker 4:And so I think it's really important to open up that conversation with both new teachers and mentors, because sometimes you see it a lot with mentors too is they get very set in their ways and they can be on that fixed side, and then if they're working with the new teachers and the new teachers then start to, you know, develop that same mindset if they may not have had it before. So I've seen a lot of mixtures of where teachers fall within that it could be that you have the new teachers that are like, willing and hopeful to learn anything and everything, as they, you know, are fresh out of the gate. We also have the new ones that are just like I just want to try everything I've been learning as I've been going to school. I think I've got it, you know, let me try it out. And we do have some that are also like I think I've got it, just leave me, leave me be, and so it's.
Speaker 4:I think it's important for us to develop that collaboration, no matter where we fall and wanting to be more growth and innovative, and so that's kind of I think that big philosophy of the student center mentoring is being collaborative around the impact that we have on students and so just being open to talk about students, being open to problem solve with each other, and I encourage especially this particular strategy to be also used in the classroom with kids. You know, open the door to talk about learning with kids, and so many of the strategies the majority of them that's the kind of intention behind it is let's think about how we can also develop this with our students in our classroom communities and build that as well.
Speaker 2:So I was going to ask you about how we can move on from the fixed mindset, but I feel like you kind of touched on that already, can I ask you? So you've talked about mentoring, you've talked about instructional coaching and you're working now as a consultant. Can you tell us a little bit about, like the differences between those? When should we reach out to one style rather than another style? How do we know who to go to for some help along the way?
Speaker 4:Oh, I don't know if I know the full answer of that, but I can try because I think there's a lot of ways to do that. So if I was, let's just say, for example, if I was a new teacher and I need to have some support or help, it might be multiple people that I go to. It might be going to my mentor asking for support. Also, if you're lucky enough to have an instructional coach to bring them into the mix and support. I'm a big lover and believer of student-centered coaching as well, which is kind of another way that I kind of birthed the idea of student-centered coaching as well, which is kind of another way that I kind of birthed the idea of student-centered mentoring. And so I think that, as a new teacher, being very willing to jump on to having a coaching cycle, which is part of that philosophy of student-centered coaching, is to jump on to getting that support. And then, you know, in the consultant realm of all the things that I have available is just, you know, reading, learning, if you get to have the opportunity to go to a session that I've done at a conference, or if I get to do work with your school district, because I do trainings with mentors and new teachers as well, then that would be another avenue that I would say it would be very important to learn more about. And I think the big thing is is that, on the education consulting side, is how can I help develop my understanding of my collaborative partnership, of what I can try to help support us in that? So that's where, then, I'd also encourage mentors to think about.
Speaker 4:This work is how can I help develop my partnership with a new teacher or future new teachers that I work with? Because that's something that it's different, I think, too, than my approach. It's not necessarily like here's the instructional checklist of what to work through them a month by month. It's more about how do I really develop that partnership that provides that support, because there's so many things out there lists, ideas about the way of teaching and really we don't focus a lot on how to support that collaboration of that mentoring partnership. So I think that's what's different about my work, and so I would definitely look at all the different things that can be possible through that and maybe even, as a mentor and a teacher, look at what are other ways I can help develop my partnership, because, you know, this isn't the only text that's going to help support that. There's lots of different tools and resources out there, so I think that's the other big idea. Does that answer that question?
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think too, it's such a valid thing to think about someone like you who has the expertise in this specific niche, that's outside of the school, right, like this is just your only focus of this work, instead of like sometimes you know, instructional coaches are kind of are pulled in all directions and different, even as a literacy coach, but you know you're working with different grades I feel like when you come in front as an outside person, you have like a linear focus, sort of you know, like it just feels more focused. So there's so much benefit to that. We are already at the point where we are kind of wrapping up the episode. Conversations go super quick, but we always ask our guests for a pare down pointer, and so we are interested to hear what yours is for listeners.
Speaker 4:So whenever I read that question at first I was like gosh, there's so many pointers I could give right. So I would actually say that I think mine is blocking time and I think this kind of connects back to that innovative mindset and then, just as a mindset of what do I have time to do, what do I also not have control of in my time that's kind of how I approach it with the strategy in the book, but I feel like it's been something that is a pointer that I've used throughout all of my roles as a teacher. I tried to always allocate specific blocks of time for certain tasks that I knew were like a really important task. Then I went in as a literacy coach and I also would do that, especially on my calendar, like if I knew that I needed to spend an hour prepping some you know collaboration materials, I made sure to have that blocked on my calendar, like before school would start, so that I wouldn't get distracted by something else, because there's so many things and as a teacher there were always so many things. I still do that as a consultant too.
Speaker 4:So that's, I think that's a skill, that or strategy that I've learned, because there's my list is like as long as long can be, as I'm sure everybody's is, and I remember that as a teacher because there's my list is like as long as long can be, as I'm sure everybody's is, and I remember that as a teacher, like I love Post-its and I would have all these lists of different things and it's like you can get very easily bogged down right and get maybe even overwhelmed. So that would probably be like just blocking time to do specific tasks to make sure that I, you know, spent time doing something. That's probably my big tip.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thank you. It is such an important skill to have and it is so easy to get lost in the list of things that you know. The list doesn't ever really get shorter, honestly, it just changes. So, yeah, the time blocking is super helpful. Thank you for the conversation, amanda. It was great talking to you. I'm sure we'll have you on the show again to talk about more around student-centered mentoring.
Speaker 4:Yes, I'd be glad to Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:This episode is sponsored by AC Brueggemann Consulting. Sponsored by AC Brueggemann Consulting, led by Amanda Brueggemann, they help schools, support new teachers while keeping students at the heart of learning. Explore her book Courses in Consulting at amandabrueggemanncom.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to the Minimalist Educator Podcast. Join Christine and Tammy and guests again next time for more conversations about how to simplify and clarify the responsibilities and tasks in your role. If today's episode helped you rethink, reimagine, reduce or realign something in your practice, share it in a comment or with a colleague. For resources and updates, visit planzeducationcom and subscribe to receive weekly emails. Until next time, keep it simple and stay intentional.
Speaker 4:Thank you.
