The Minimalist Educator Podcast
A podcast about paring down to focus on the purpose and priorities in our roles.
The Minimalist Educator Podcast
Episode 071: Integrating SEL Without Adding More with Dr. Krista Leh
Dr. Krista Leh returns to discuss how educators can effectively integrate social emotional learning into their teaching without adding to their workload, emphasizing the importance of recognizing SEL skills already present in their practices.
• Teachers continue to struggle with balancing personal lives and professional obligations while facing constant addition of new initiatives
• SEL is more than just building relationships—it's a set of interpersonal and intrapersonal skills that teachers are often already incorporating
• Research shows students only need one caring, consistent adult to make a difference in their lives
• Middle school leadership programs can effectively build student SEL skills by providing structured opportunities to explore character strengths
• Workshop design should honor participant expertise and create safe spaces for collaboration
• Free resources available at resonanceed.com for teachers looking to enhance their SEL practices
• Integration starts by examining existing practices and identifying the SEL skills already embedded in classroom activities
You don't have to do anything alone. Reach out to colleagues who can help you relate to students better, connect with someone who has different expertise, or ask for support at home so you can be your best self.
This episode is sponsored by Resonance Education.
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The Minimalist Educator Podcast is a Plan Z Education Services adventure.
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a podcast about paring down to refocus on the purpose and priorities in our roles with co-hosts and co-authors of the Minimalist Teacher Book, Tammy Musialski-Borneman and Christine Arnold.
Speaker 2:On this episode. We welcome back Dr Krista Lay. Krista is talking to us today about developing SEL programs in schools. Dr Krista Lay founded Resonance Educational Consulting, which supports educators in building meaningful, engaging and sustainable cultures that enhance social emotional learning and promote diversity, equity and inclusion. Her 24-year career in education includes being a high school social studies teacher, instructional tech coach, curriculum coach and student leadership advocate. Kristen was also an adjunct professor for a master's in education program specialising in SEL. She designed and facilitated methods of research, curriculum design and development and culturally responsive teaching. In 2012, kristen was one of the 26 educators in the country selected as an ASCD Emerging Leader. Since then, she's worked with educators in nearly 30 states to feel more confident and competent in integrating SEL into learning communities. Krista holds a BS in Secondary Education, a Master's in Education Curriculum Instruction and an Ed Doctorate in Educational Leadership from Lehigh University.
Speaker 3:Welcome everyone to this week's episode of the Minimalist Educator Podcast. We are excited to have a returning guest with us today, Dr Krista Lay. Welcome back, Krista.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much. I'm incredibly excited to get a chance to see you both and to talk to you again.
Speaker 3:Yes, and how are you Christine?
Speaker 2:I'm fantastic. How are you, Tammy?
Speaker 3:I'm really excited to be in this Zoom room with you and to have another episode talking about SEL and education and you know our lives, and so we thought we would have Krista back to talk about, because actually you were here quite a while ago in our first season near the end of the first season, which would have been like a year ago I think and yeah, it's been quite a while and so we wanted to have you back to just touch base with you, because you've been doing a ton of work in schools with teachers and now with students, so can you I don't even know where to start Should maybe we should start with, like, what does it feel like in the schools that you're working in right now and you're in different regions, so you can kind of like speak globally or regionally, however, that makes sense.
Speaker 4:Yeah, wow, that's a great question, and I am in different regions right now, so I'm working in several different states, but I think that what is different is looking at the different atmospheres that I'm in. So I'm in some urban schools, some more suburban schools and some that are not, I would say, rural, but like more rural-like, and so I'm seeing different needs of students depending upon what access they have near them right, like, do they have to drive super far? Is the city right there? But also, the city has different challenges as well, and I think one thing, though, that's been really consistent is teachers still trying to kind of navigate what's happening in their personal lives and balance that with still the heightened professional I wanted to say standards, but it's not even really standards but professional obligations that they have, which I think falls a lot in line with the work that you do around minimalism, and it just seems like, as educators, we still haven't gotten off that train of adding more.
Speaker 2:So, so true, isn't it? It seems like it's always and and and without, without. You know, what are we taking away? Yeah, it still. It seems to be a a consistent issue. Um, that that keeps coming up for us, unfortunately, uh, so what? What are some of the the themes that the teachers are talking to you about, whether it's for themselves, their own social, emotional, well-being, but also that they're working with the students?
Speaker 4:Yeah Well, I think I'd like to say as well that people do have in mind that they want to streamline. They know that when they're adding quote, adding initiatives, they want people to see how they're interconnected, and when I hear what they're doing, I can see the interconnectedness. So it's not necessarily that people are just throwing spaghetti at a wall like let's try all these things to support students, because students still are being at the center, are remaining at the center, and I think the vision is there for how everything is connected. But I think that the way that sometimes things are rolled out and the timing that is allocated is what's really stressful for teachers. So the time that they have for planning or for preparing what is next for their students is often taken away because they're asked to focus on a new learning or a new professional learning or a new strategy or how something is connected, and they're not necessarily having the time that they need to do the planning and the preparation or the conversations to talk about ways to support students.
Speaker 4:And so I'm seeing that as a frustration, like where do you need me to focus what is priority right now? Because all of this can't be priority. Then what's happening? Is that what I'm hearing teachers say is that they're taking some of that stress level home and so they're not always being or showing up as the best version of themselves for their family members. And that's been really hard because as educators we want to be the best version of who we are for everybody. But we can only take so much before we start to have little cracks and maybe start acting in ways that aren't necessarily in line with truly who we are and how we want to show up in the world.
Speaker 3:You said a lot of things there and I jotted down a couple of things I wanted to sort of go back to that you were alluding to, and that was like how to plan, for you know, how do we kind of make this just part of what we do, and so is there any shift at all with teachers or administrators, or both, thinking that SEL is an add-on, like, is there still that kind of misunderstanding that, oh, this is something else we need to do, but in fact, like we're trying to say it's not, like we're embedding it, integrating it into everything? Has there been any shift in that?
Speaker 4:I would love to say, yes, my heart wants to tell you like, yes, people are seeing it. I don't think they're seeing it right away, but I think that there's still a misconception around what SEL actually is and most people are still defining it as relationships and yes, you've heard me say this so many times, tammy like that is a part of it, but that's not everything. That SEL is a set of skills that we're working on helping students develop, skills that we're working on helping students develop and that we're working on developing that are interpersonal and intrapersonal. So the self-awareness and the self-management. And I think, when I really get down into all of its small components, then there's that light bulb that comes on that says, oh my gosh, I am doing this already and it's not a new thing, but it's. How can I be more explicit with the students and how can I be more intentional about connecting what I'm already doing to a social, emotional learning skill?
Speaker 2:You were talking there about. You know all of these obligations and expectations that teachers have these days and just thinking specifically about social, emotional learning, whether it's the skills or or even building the relationships.
Speaker 2:It makes me think about when I was at the age that my students are Right. I won't say how many years ago that was, it was a while ago now. I mean I'm certain I had several teachers that I never had a conversation with. Like I went the whole year in their classroom and we did not have a one-on-one conversation. And now when I think about how much time of the day I spend like one-on-one with kids, small group with kids, actually hearing their opinions and going back and forth, like that alone is such a huge shift in the expectations that we have on us as teachers. And you know that's only one little element of that shift. Can you talk a little bit more to that?
Speaker 4:Oh, absolutely. And as soon as you started sharing about reflecting back, I was reflecting back as well and I'm like, oh yeah, you couldn't have paid me to sit in a room with that teacher to talk. And honestly, I think that's okay, because we're not, for everybody at that level, naturally clicked better with now. That's not to say that I don't continue to try, and so I do have activities and work around. How do we create these developmental relationships with all of our students and aspire to work with as many of them equitably as possible? Right, but there are sometimes just personality conflicts. That doesn't mean that I'm still not doing my best to serve students, to feel a sense of belonging and to give them opportunities to grow and develop and to feel academic success. But my hope would be that if I'm not the one for them like I'm not their, you know cup of tea that there is another teacher that I can connect with and learn from, and together we're creating this collaborative community to support the student. And I think back to my own kids, who are now grown, that it's okay if there was a teacher that they didn't jive with, but who is their person? And I feel that as long as the students have somebody they can go to. All you need in the research since, oh, 1999 and probably before, but I just know 1999. And of course, right now the researcher's names are out of my head. But all it takes is one caring, consistent adult to make a difference in a child's life.
Speaker 4:Scales, and Leffert, look at that, it just popped in. And if they have more than that, that would be awesome. But if you're not that person, who can you talk to and say, hey, can you tell me what works best with reaching out to that student? So I think we aspire to it, but I don't think that we need to be that person or change who we are to be that person for everybody. But how do we continue to work with people to be better?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so some of the work that you've been doing, because initially you were, you know the goal is to work with the adults and their SEL skills and then you know they bring that into classrooms. But you've recognized this additional area that is super important in your work and that's working with students. And so I know in recent months you've been meeting with groups of students and you had mentioned to me a couple I don't, I was going to say a couple of weeks ago, it was probably longer ago than that, but like you had mentioned a shift in like how they were responding, so can you talk a little bit about that process with them?
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know, we did start off the business with working with the adults, because how can we help them develop the skills, the resources and the tools and the strategies that they need to be able to reach students in different ways? But when I think back to when I was a high school teacher, I had worked with a couple staff members and we created a leadership academy that was filled with very diverse students of and it was racially, socioeconomically, linguistically, religiously, in terms of gender and the way that they perceive themselves and the way that they showed up in the world, their different interests in school and outside of school. So, as anybody who is showing leadership potential, we're like join us, we want to work with you and learn from you, and so we allowed them to kind of create what did they want to learn about and how could they take this back to their peer groups, and it was a huge success in many different ways, and when I left the district I always wanted to carry that piece with me. But you can't do everything all at once, right, but we know that when we're working with students, they need to have a voice and have a sense of agency in the work themselves, and I say, work with a capital? W? Like are we all growing together? And so I've had an opportunity this year to work with middle school. W? Like are we all growing together? And so I've had an opportunity this year to work with middle school students, fifth grade through eighth grade.
Speaker 4:I get to work with them every month for three hours and the funny thing is, thinking back, like three hours is probably long. They have a lot of energy and so we mix it up a lot Like every 15 to 20 minutes we have some sort of movement activity and so we're asking up a lot Like every 15 to 20 minutes we have some sort of movement activity and so we're asking them what do you want to learn about, what's important for you? What questions do you have? And really the first full two sessions we're giving them opportunities to get to know each other, consistently, mixing up the small groups, having them introduce themselves, do what I call level one questioning. We're finding out what they have in common, what's unique, and giving them little pieces about leadership, like tell me about the school, tell me what you like, what you'd want to change, why are you here? And our last session we were having them dig more into leadership and their VIA character strengths through the University of Penn. So if you go to VIA character strengths, there's an online survey they can take and they were looking at what leadership qualities they aspire to, what top two to five character strengths they have that they can really leverage.
Speaker 4:And it was just really amazing to see how the group coalesced, how they were going from group to group and talking to each other, that they were asking each other to join in on the small group activities where I felt like it was really hesitant the first session uncomfortable, didn't you know, needed to get to know each other and it was cool to see this kind of metamorphosis of them coming together as a group and thinking about that as an introvert myself too.
Speaker 4:We also put in pieces that they all had name tags and they would introduce themselves. We gave them journals that they could write their notes in and that they could just do scribblings, and we found out that one of the boys he wants to be an architect. He's in sixth grade and does the most amazing designs in his book. While he's listening to people, we gave them little squishies to kind of play with and to hold, and so, thinking about that, this could be a stressful situation to be in. Yet they're here because they want to learn how could we ease the path for them and I think we're really seeing the fruits of their labor and our labor really coming together.
Speaker 2:That sounds amazing. Sounds like a very special thing to be a part of Krista. That's awesome. I'm wondering whether you've got any advice, if for teachers who you know might really want to develop their skills in SEL for their school or their classroom, but maybe they don't have the funding for it or it's not part of the school plan at the moment, so they don't really have too many resources that they can access themselves. Do you have any advice for people?
Speaker 4:No, oh, definitely. The first thing I would say is that go to my website. There's a lot of free resources out there that they can download and start implementing right away. So that is wwwresonanceedcom. Love to get on a Zoom, like you can go to my Calendly and like let's book a half an hour and talk about where you're at, what you aspire to do, and I'd love to just bounce ideas with you for a little bit.
Speaker 4:I love engaging with people who want to learn and grow in SEL, and I would say that one of the first things that we could do is just take a look at what you're already doing and how that aligns with one of the 40 SEL skills. So it's not adding one more thing, but what are you already doing or thinking about in your social interactions? How do you greet people coming into the room? What do you know about your students and how can you engage in social conversations with them? What do you do to reinforce opportunities for students to get to know each other, instead of them just sitting in their same seat only talking to their shoulder partner all year long? And then I think the next piece would be what SEL skills do students need to be developing to learn in your classroom. So a lot of teachers have labs or group projects, and those are filled with SEL skills. So what is it that's already in there that you would like to enhance with students? So think big and start small.
Speaker 3:A mentor of mine, dr Pete Grandy, used to say that I love that you were talking about some of the resources you have on your website. You have a ton of stuff on there and I've seen you use it in multiple workshops which I wanted to ask you about because I remember when we in the summer of 2024, august or July we spent a week out in Arizona doing workshops for teachers and I remember getting a heads up from the organizers saying we've got some challenge, potentially challenging principles in the audience and by the end they had really bought in, like we got some good feedback about the workshops and so can you just talk a little bit about, like, how you design your activities and workshops, because they are like the engagement is really high.
Speaker 4:Thank you. I appreciate that. I think that the first thing is to not assume that people aren't knowledgeable. So I don't ever want to come in and think, oh, I have to cover all this content because maybe people in the room already know these things and so I want to draw upon their expertise and their experiences, and so I often try and I've learned this from you, tammy, too taking an inquiry approach. So here's where I know we need to get to like here are learning goals, and maybe there's three or four of them in a full day session. What activities can I plan where I can engage them in sharing what they know, what they've experienced, what they've done, and have them share out, and then I can fill in the gaps with some new pieces to link together what they're already doing. So it doesn't feel like I'm coming in and lecturing them, because we all show up as full individuals with something to share. I think the second part, too, is educators crave opportunities to collaborate with each other and share what they've been doing, and so I would rather hear from more people in the room than them hearing from me here. For more people in the room than them hearing from me, I'm happy to answer questions and to give ideas, but oftentimes I think about how I can create something to meet people's needs based on what they're sharing out.
Speaker 4:And we always have a lot of movement. We're up and down, we're moving into different groups, and so you know right away when you're working with me that within the first 20 minutes you're going to be up and moving somewhere. And I say that as you're smiling, because I'm an introvert too and I don't like when people do that to me. I'm like, oh god, no, I need to go get coffee and head out of this room. But I feel that I do it in a safe way where you're not looking for who is, you're in your group, you're not afraid of being left out and I don't just drop you in a group and say you get to work. It's very structured and it's in a fun way where you know where you're going, you have a chance to meet the people and you have specific conversation starters to get you going before you get into more of the content piece love that, love that.
Speaker 2:There's always that moment of hesitation, right where you're like oh, no I have, I have to talk to strangers, I have to move. Oh, no yeah.
Speaker 4:Oh, and it's like I purposely sat here in this spot in the room. I like to be in the back of the room, near an end, in case I need to like head out somewhere. I'm not stuck in the middle, I don't have all eyes on me, and then they're like no, like no, no, no, you need to move your seat.
Speaker 2:I'm like, yeah, it's very, it's stressful and it's, if it's stressful for us as adults, think about what it's like for the kids. I know, absolutely, but it's, it's always worthwhile, like the people that you meet doing that sort of thing is, is it's?
Speaker 2:really worthwhile for sure, but I love that part that you were saying, though, about when you're leading a workshop is everyone's got expertise in the room, and that you're like just there to facilitate what's going on and fill in those gaps. It's really nice to have workshop leaders who are able to take, you know, I guess like the ego out of it a little bit and say we've all got something to contribute here. We've all got something that we can share. Let's harness that rather than like I'm the expert, listen to me.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I even hate that word, I hate the strong word. But even when people are like expert, I'm like really Cause, I feel like I'm just on this journey, just like everybody else, and the only reason I think that I can specifically talk longer about SEL is because that's all I do, like most other people are pulled in so many other directions. Like I can't talk the way you both do about applying minimalism into all facets of your life, or into how to set up an IB school, or talking about student agency and coaching the way that you both do. You know so we all have something to offer when we're, when we're coming together.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I just super appreciate how, like you're really modeling a workshop, how classes should be taught, right, like it's so thoughtfully planned out that you're you're modeling how to use SEL skills when you're teaching something or facilitating something, and I'm like you're super sneaky and good at it and like people don't even know it's happening. However, like you are explicit about like why we're doing something which is what we want teachers to be doing, Right? So I just appreciate that about your approach.
Speaker 4:Thank you, thank you, and if you remember to um, like that ability to be flexible and agile is important because, tammy, you know, we were there for five days and every day we were changing something up to make it better the next day, so it was like what we want our teachers to do. So what we started off with on Monday didn't look the same on Friday. Monday didn't look the same on Friday, and in fact, I've revised it two more times since then. Yeah, and that that's part of this process is to be iterative and to meet people's needs, cause I think the worst thing is walking away from a full day session, being like that was always fine, right, exactly, sadly we're, we need to wrap up our episode.
Speaker 3:Okay, sadly we need to wrap up our episode. But I mean, you've said lots of things, but if you were going to give our you know about our pare down pointer for listeners, if you were going to drop a pare down pointer for people, kind of based on our conversation today, what would that be?
Speaker 4:You know what I think it would be that you don't have to do anything alone, like reach out to the people who are around you, your colleagues, who can help you relate to a student a little bit better, or somebody who might have a different type of expertise than you do, or to a partner at home to give you five minutes to decompress so you can be your best self for whoever you have in the household. So I think, really just help people realize that you don't ever have to walk through any aspect of life alone and that sometimes, when you are asked to just get up and meet with a new group, it could introduce you to new ideas and new people who could really become a solid support structure for you.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that so much. Thank you, Krista. Thanks again for being on the podcast with us.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much. It's always a pleasure to be able to start my day seeing both of your faces and hearing from you, so thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker 2:This episode was brought to you by Resonance Education. Resonance Education are consultants who collaborate with educators to create comprehensive, sustainable, scalable cultures of social, emotional learning. You can find them at residenceedcom.
Speaker 1:Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for more episodes of the Minimalist Educator podcast. They would love to hear about your journey with minimalism. Connect with them at PlanZPLS on Twitter or Instagram. The music for the podcast has been written and performed by Gaia Moretti. Thank you.
