The Minimalist Educator Podcast
A podcast about paring down to focus on the purpose and priorities in our roles.
The Minimalist Educator Podcast
Episode 068: From Classroom to Corporate with Lindsay Durkin
Lindsay Durkin shares her transformative transition from a passionate first-grade teacher to a corporate training manager, reflecting on the challenges of feeling unfulfilled in teaching and the valuable skills she carries into her new role. The episode emphasizes the importance of recognizing one's value beyond the classroom and the potential for finding fulfillment in a different professional environment.
• Exploration of Lindsay’s journey from teacher to corporate trainer
• Discussion on feelings of unfulfillment and burnout in teaching
• Insights into the transition to corporate training and adult learning
• Highlighting transferable skills from teaching to corporate settings
• Overcoming imposter syndrome and self-advocacy during career changes
• Importance of recognizing professionalism and value in new roles
• Reflection on the necessity for teachers to feel supported and valued
• Encouragement for educators to pursue paths that align with their happiness and purpose
Lindsay has a Master's Degree in Education, Curriculum and Instruction, and taught first grade for 10 years in both the US and Europe. Throughout her career, Lindsay created and facilitated professional development and coaching sessions on classroom management, behavior interventions, inquiry-based learning and effective workshop strategies for K-5 classrooms. She also worked for an educational company where she led virtual workshops for educators and educational leaders across the US. These experiences ignited Lindsay’s passion for adult learning, leading her to transition out of the classroom and into corporate training. She is now a Training Manager for a financial services company.
This episode is sponsored by Plan Z Education Services, forward-thinking educator support.
Buy The Minimalist Teacher book from ASCD+ISTE.
Follow on Instagram @PlanZEducation and @minimalist_ed_podcast.
The Minimalist Educator Podcast is a Plan Z Education Services adventure.
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a podcast about paring down to refocus on the purpose and priorities in our roles with co-hosts and co-authors of the Minimalist Teacher Book, Tammy Musialski-Borneman and Christine Arnold.
Speaker 2:For this week's episode. Our guest joining us is Lindsay Durkin. Lindsay is a former teacher now working as a training manager. She shares her reflections with us about what it's like to transition out of education and what the similarities and differences are between her roles. Lindsay has a master's degree in education curriculum and instruction and taught first grade for 10 years in both the US and Europe. Throughout her career, lindsay created and facilitated professional development and coaching sessions on classroom management, behavior interventions, inquiry-based learning and effective workshop strategies for K-5 classrooms. She also worked for an educational company where she led virtual workshops for educators and educational leaders across the US. These experiences ignited Lindsay's passion for adult learning, leading her to transition out of the classroom and into corporate training. She is now a training manager for a financial services company. Hello and welcome to today's episode of the Minimalist Educator podcast. I'm here with Tammy and Lindsay Durkin today. Welcome, guys. How are you both Doing? Well, thanks. How are you? I'm good. What about you, tammy?
Speaker 3:I'm doing well also. I was going to say well as well, but I feel like that's weird. But yeah, no, things are good. Yes, how are you Christine?
Speaker 2:I'm good, I'm excited to see Lindsay. It's been a while since I've seen her lovely face, so it's good to have a chat which leads us straight into it. Lindsay is my ex-colleague, was a teacher for a full decade, weren't you, lindsay? I made it to the decade, made it to the decade. Yeah, she, you know, got her master's. She was, you know, got her master's. She was, you know, offering pd for teachers. She worked in different places, including overseas, different roles at school, um, but eventually made the decision to to leave school and leave teaching as a classroom teacher still in education in in some manner these days, but um, yes, but yeah, leaving the classroom and so we really wanted to get her in and have a little chat about that process, um, but also about life on the other side. What is it like out there? So maybe you could tell us a little bit about your, your journey with teaching and and why you decided to make the move away teaching and why you decided to make the move away, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 4:So I mean, I was definitely one of those people who went into teaching thinking that was the forever job for me. I loved it so much in the beginning, taught first grade for most of my career, taught kindergarten my first year, loved that adventure. And then was in first grade and loved it for a really long time. And then was in first grade and loved it for a really long time and towards the end I just wasn't feeling as fulfilled anymore and was finding that it was really hard to get to work and was having a lot still do something that I love, which is teaching, but just in a different way or maybe with a different audience. And so I started kind of throughout my career was finding myself doing professional development for teachers and really loved that. And then, probably the last two years of my teaching career started looking, you know, on LinkedIn and just kind of looking at what my options would be if I left the classroom and found a company called Better Lesson and they are fully remote and they offer professional development workshops and training and like one-on-one coaching for teachers and educators and educational leaders across the US, and so I actually got a job working with them while I was still classroom teaching and I loved it.
Speaker 4:It was. I just instantly was like this is this, is it, this is what I want to do, Cause I could still teach but was now really transitioning into that adult learning space. And then that's ultimately what kind of gave me, I think, the confidence and just the boost I needed. To be like this is a good fit. This is something that I see myself in and just had so many transferable skills to just move right into that and so decided to leave the classroom and take a huge leap of faith and join an industry that I had no knowledge working in at the financial services industry and got myself into corporate training. And now I'm a training manager and it's great because it's a lot of the same things I was doing with teaching. I get to facilitate, I get to create content on just a bigger scale and in a very, very different way. The corporate world is very different than our teaching world, but it's been really great. It's been over two and a half years now. I'm really happy in it.
Speaker 3:I have so many questions I don't even know where to start. Okay, so I'll back up a little bit. Baby, so you had mentioned, when you were teaching, the Sunday Scaries, but they were happening like every day. Can you pinpoint because I know this is very relatable for people in their roles Can you kind of pinpoint the, the cause of that, or was it just kind of like everything? Yeah, so kind of talk us through that a little bit.
Speaker 4:Sorry if it brings up a stress stressing no, no, I appreciate that, though For me it was kind of a slow I want to say slow burn, and maybe it is like I didn't feel burnt out at the end, so I don't want to use that, but it just over time I kept catching myself thinking differently than I did before. So, for example, when before I went overseas to teach, I was kind of just feeling like I need to shake things up a little bit. Maybe I need to change grade levels or maybe move somewhere else. Maybe that'll help. And so then I moved overseas. It didn't help, right, because it's the same, it's kind of the same thing. And then the next thing I can really remember and pinpoint was I have always had a really good classroom management and I always felt very confident in that and my skills there, and I started to feel like I was losing that a little bit, like I was getting really easily frustrated, whereas before I was super patient and I wouldn't let those things phase me. And so it was just little things like that that I was like am I, am I not doing those things because I don't like it anymore, or is the environment I'm in changing in a way that I now maybe don't fit in that.
Speaker 4:And then really, the final kind of catalyst was in my last year of teaching.
Speaker 4:I would feel so overwhelmed with, you know, the little kids they're always saying your name 5,000 times and just so much energy in that room, whereas before, like I would harness that energy, I lived for that. I was like, oh, this is so great, we're doing workshops, everybody's doing different things, and I just felt really overwhelmed by the energy and like that constant energy, and I didn't feel like I could ever escape that. And so that was definitely where I was like I need, I need to change this, because I'm now going to eventually react in a way that's not beneficial for the kids. Right, it's not fair if I'm not showing up every day giving them what they need, or being able to give them what they need, like it's not their fault, right, it's, it's me reacting to it. So those are really kind of the big things where I'm like I need changing a grade level is not going to change. I think I need to remove myself from this environment and find something new yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I remember. I remember having those conversations with you when we went next door to each other, where, where you were, like I thought it would be different in another country. But here we are, we got the same things going on and it's yeah, it's so true, isn't it? Those sort of systemic issues and so on are just, yeah, they're prevalent everywhere. It doesn't matter where you go, we have the same sort of themes coming up all the time for sure. So tell us a little. I mean, obviously you know you can go to the bathroom whenever you want. That's a huge upside, but like it's amazing, you guys. But what are some other things that are, you know, would blow teachers minds about what you can do when you're not in that school setting?
Speaker 4:yeah it, it's definitely for me personally. I'm sure other people may have different experiences, but the grass is the greenest it's ever been. On the other side, like it's not just green, it is thriving. So, aside from definitely the financial benefits, that was something that pretty quickly I was like, oh okay, like this is great, and just little things, like really feeling valued as a professional and not questioned as often as we do, I think, as teachers.
Speaker 4:But the mind blowing things and the things I will never take for granted as long as I'm in in this corporate industry now is you guys, when I'm sick or I'm getting on PTO, you know what I don't have to write Sub plans. There are no sub plans. I'm just not here today, I'm just not here this week, like here's somebody you can reach out to though if you have any questions while I'm gone. Just not having to do the sub plans I think is is a game changer coming from from teaching. But aside from all that, just I remember the first day I started because I'm fully remote, was just how at ease I felt. I didn't anxious, even at the times where work is really stressful. At the end of the day, it's truly just like okay, I'm just going to close my laptop and it's there tomorrow, like I don't need to spend all night thinking about it. And it's just been such a game changer for my mental health, physical health, just emotional health, and yeah, it's been physical health just emotional health and yeah, it's been.
Speaker 3:It's been pretty life-changing for me personally. That's so profound, just many of those things that you said. But like, yeah, the the great, one of the greatest sources of stress is the sub plan. Like you, just, you're just almost like I should just go in, cause I don't want to write this thing because you never, get to relax, right, yeah, and like you're, you're not well and you still have to, like mentally, do this thing.
Speaker 3:I'm wondering. So now the shift with adults. So all three of us have kind of, you know, gone through this shift where you know we were full-time teachers and now you know, christine and I still work in school settings and are in, you know, around kids and and, but we also work with adults at the same time. So in for you shifting over to a completely different industry. What are some? What are? This is kind of maybe a weird question, but like, what are the similarities to, like teaching kindergartners and teaching adults in like a different industry? Because similarities.
Speaker 4:Older similarities. One of the questions I get the most is you know, was it a really hard transition Teaching? You know the teaching wise, going from first graders to adults? And I was like, no, no, no, that was. It was probably the easiest transition because there is so much overlap, so a lot of similarities, and I think this is what's great for teachers who are wanting to transition into something else is we truly bring so much to the table?
Speaker 4:You've been doing so many things that will provide value and impact in other industries and in other roles. So, for example, teachers, I think we're highly organized. That's something that you have to be as teachers and in other roles, but especially for me, in my role being fully remote, you have to be organized on a totally different level because you know you're not able to just pop over to the classroom next door and, you know, lay out all your papers or calendars, whatever you need. So you have to be highly organized. Communication for sure. Even with children, we have to set very clear objectives and expectations, and that is no different with adults. If anything, I find I am still repeating those expectations quite often and holding people accountable of. Hey, we had this conversation. This is what we talked about. Here it is in writing or here it is in this policy. You know this was the expectation. Did you meet that expectation?
Speaker 4:So, communication, definitely organization and just that collaborative piece too, set them up for success. We create resources and we spend extra time working with people and same with teaching adults. Right, they still need those resources. We still have to tap into different learning styles. Right, when I'm making resources, I need to make some hands-on e-learns for people. I also need to make, maybe, video walkthroughs for people who are really visual and I need to kind of walk you through it myself and show you. So so many things that are similar to what I was doing in the classroom with first graders. I think that really helped set me up for success with training adults as well.
Speaker 2:I was going to ask pretty much exactly that Like what do you think of the skills that you get as a teacher? That helps you. But you've definitely covered that with the communication and that social side and everything. So I'm wondering is there anything that would hold us back, Something that is common with teachers, that would hold us back into moving into other fields? Do you think?
Speaker 4:That's a really good question. I think what would hold people back is first, not having the confidence to take the leap in the first place and having and there was definitely moments and I say moments, but it was probably the first, maybe six months in my role where imposter syndrome was alive and well, I knew that I was a teacher. Other people in the company didn't know I used to be a teacher, right, they didn't know that was my first corporate job, but it lived freely in my brain that thinking, oh well, everybody just thinks I'm a teacher, right, and it's so getting past that of like, yes, I was a teacher, but I was a really good teacher, right, like so knowing and believing that in yourself of hey, I did that really well for a long time, here's how I can provide value in this company here. And kind of switching from I was a teacher too, I spent 10 years of learning and development, right, that's what a lot of companies are looking for are people who can really easily assess gaps in learning and then develop solutions for that. And so I think, kind of changing your mindset of, first of all, I can do this, I bring a lot to the table, but then also being able to put in the work.
Speaker 4:It was not an easy transition. I had to have a lot of just conversations with myself and others of hey, here's what my resume looks like, and have people be like this doesn't tell me anything, because in teaching we tend to add a lot of fluff, and that's something that needs to be removed, especially when you're in the corporate world of. You need to be very clear and have very clearly defined outcomes, objectives, and that starts very early on with your resume, and it has to show data, has to show impact. You have to have numbers, and sometimes that's hard for us because we're like oh, but I, you know, I provided interventions. That doesn't mean a lot to people who are doing that or have never done that. So I think those can be roadblocks. But if you go into it with a really open mind and you're really serious about it and you're very clear about what you want to do, I think that's something that can also trip up people who want to transition out, as they don't know what you want to do.
Speaker 4:I think that's something that can also trip up people who want to transition out is they don't know what they want to do and so they apply for you know five, 10, 15 different kinds of roles and expect someone to give them a chance. Nobody owes you a chance and there's thousands of other teachers with the exact same resume as you. So how do you stand out? And I know people say, well, once I get to the interview, but you might not. How do you get yourself to that interview? So it's a lot of kind of tough conversations up front, just with yourself and knowing where your own areas of opportunity are. And for me it started with the resume like Ooh, okay, well, this is fluffy A. What does that mean? What do I need to get rid of? And can I see an example? And then just going, going from there.
Speaker 3:And that's such a good reminder because I think you know, as teachers too, we kind of we can be collectors.
Speaker 3:And what we're saying is just like right, like collectors of the information and collectors of the things that we've done. Oh, I'm just going to add this to my list of things I've done, but it's like just not written in the way that speaks to the people we needed to speak to. So that's like such a good reminder. And just when you were talking about kind of this process and like having that sort of aha moment. I certainly appreciate that you're talking about like your confidence through the process, even though you had some of this imposter syndrome right as you started.
Speaker 3:But the importance of having some of that reflection time, like what is it that's making me not want to do this thing anymore, but make you know like I need to shift. And you mentioned earlier just one of the big changes that you feel is like you're you're kind of treated as more of a professional right it's. It's a different industry. You have a different level of trust that you're just going to do your job and you'll do it well and you'll be there, and when you're not there, it's okay. How does that make you feel now, knowing that's how you can feel in this role, versus maybe you weren't feeling that before.
Speaker 4:It's amazing, honestly, and I think it just helps when I am presented with challenges, being able to remind myself that I've I've made it through these other challenging transitions right and if I can do that and I'm trusted in this role, I can take on really anything else that's thrown at me. Um, and I think that's important for teachers to know too, that you might not get when I think about transitioning teachers, a lot of people want to go straight into ed tech like, oh, I want to work for Lexi or a company that I've worked with because I could be really good at, like I can see worked with because I could be really good at it. I can see myself doing that. I could be really good at it. I've used the software. But you might not get that opportunity. So not saying no to For me.
Speaker 4:I went into a completely different industry and had to ramp up and learn very quickly all about something that I was uncomfortable with. It was a subject matter I was not an expert in. I feel like I am now because I allowed myself the time to get there. I asked questions and, like you were saying, of just being open with hey, this is an area of opportunity for myself but also then maybe outlining some steps of how I'm going to get there. So I think by just having that authenticity and being vulnerable but then also being able to show that I'm putting in the there.
Speaker 4:So I think by just having that authenticity and being vulnerable but then also being able to show that I'm putting in the work to do this and now I can do this really well, kind of helps build your credibility along the way, and then you do get more trust and as you continue to execute on the things you need to do, I think it just helps the people that you're working with know that you are somebody who they can come to, not only just for a solution, but sometimes just as a thought partner.
Speaker 4:I'll have people send me training decks sometimes and they're like hey, can you just look through this and let me know what you think you know? Or kind of add, add that L and D, twist to it, um, and I think over time that's those are the things too that will definitely help with the confidence and just help more people within the organization trust you as well, because a lot of it's word of mouth of hey, that was a great training deck or hey, that was really great. You know where, where did you come up with that? Like, oh, lindsay helped me build that out, or Lindsay built this, and now I'm going to get you know other people coming to me asking for help with various things.
Speaker 2:Very cool, very cool. So, looking back at your time as a teacher, is there any like advice that you would have given yourself, or you're very happy with the path and everything that happened?
Speaker 4:Honestly, I look back on it so fond and I think that's how I know that I left at the right time, because had I stayed, I would have been miserable and it could have ended in a really dark way. No-transcript want to have regrets or I wish I could have done this differently or that, but it's so true that everything that you've gone through you went through for a reason and it's just helped make you who you are today, so I don't think I'd do anything differently make you who you are today, so I don't think I'd do anything differently.
Speaker 3:That's a great feeling to have, honestly, because we know that a lot of teachers just like think they have to stick it out because change is hard.
Speaker 4:It is. And, yeah, you don't have to feel bad for leaving and you don't have to feel bad for like, hey, this actually isn't, isn't what it used to be, cause especially right now, after COVID too, so much has changed and that's okay to be. Like, you know what I? I've given so much to this profession and to this role and it's just not. It's not serving me anymore and so I need to find something else.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think there's a level of guilt that comes with that right For a hundred percent, yeah, and it's hard to navigate through that. So mean I can see why. You know some. I've known teachers and principals who are like I just have seven more years and I'm like can you just hear?
Speaker 4:your song. It's so long. Life is too short. Yeah, life is way too short to do something that you're unhappy with. Take the risk, risk.
Speaker 3:Yeah, do it. Yeah, it's usually worth it. It's a good learning experience. It has been like, where does the time go? But this is what I know. It flew by, flew by, but at the end of our episodes we always ask our guests for a pare down pointer. So it could be from like something you know that you've learned in your new role, where you're like oh, this is like a go-to strategy that I use for this, or could have been something from teaching. So what do you want to share with our listeners?
Speaker 4:I can actually share something that serves me every day in my current role. But, looking at it, it's something that we actually do in teaching constantly. Maybe we don't know it or not, but it would just be to ask yourself the question what are we solving for? So when I get pinged for, hey, I want to build out this training for my team Great, what are we solving for? I have to know where we need to end up in order to and it reminds me of backwards planning and education I need to know what the end goal is before I can kind of think backwards of what are the resources and tools and activities and how am I going to scaffold the learning in order to get there. So that would be still one of the things that was big for me in teaching, and still is, of just understanding what we're solving for and just having very clearly defined outcomes, objectives and, of course, deadlines. Deadlines are huge in the corporate world. We love a deadline.
Speaker 2:Oh, my goodness, that's awesome. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us today, lindsay. I think that's going to be really insightful for lots and lots of people.
Speaker 4:Absolutely Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:Today's episode was brought to you by Plan Z Professional Learning Services forward-thinking educator support. Find out more at planzplservicescom.
Speaker 1:Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for more episodes of the Minimalist Educator podcast. They would love to hear about your journey with minimalism. Connect with them at PlanZPLS on Twitter or Instagram. The music for the podcast has been written and performed by Gaia Moretti. Thank you.
