The Minimalist Educator Podcast
The Minimalist Educator Podcast
Episode 041: Battling Clutter with Christine and Tammy
Ever wondered why maintaining a tidy workspace seems impossible despite your best efforts? Join us as Christine and I unpack our personal struggles with clutter—from Christine's double-duty roles at school creating chaos in her office and classroom, to my ongoing battle with post-it notes overtaking my desk. We get candid about how life's interruptions often derail our organizational goals and share the practical strategies that help us reclaim order in our environments.
Discover the profound impact clutter has on mental well-being and the culture of shared spaces, especially in educational settings. We discuss actionable tips like creating routines, scheduling decluttering sessions, and leveraging accountability partners. Plus, don’t miss our game-changing five-minute rule to beat procrastination and our 30-day decluttering challenge tailored for teachers. Tune in for thoughtful gift-giving ideas and creative solutions to manage daily clutter, ensuring a more organized and stress-free work environment.
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The Minimalist Educator Podcast is a Plan Z Professional Learning Services adventure.
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a podcast about paring down to refocus on the purpose and priorities in our roles with co-hosts and co-authors of the Minimalist Teacher Book, Tammy Musialski-Bornemann and Christine Arnold.
Speaker 2:In this episode we tackle the challenge of how to sustain our spaces once we've gone through the decluttering process. We talk about why it's so important and what makes it challenging to maintain.
Speaker 3:Hello everyone, welcome to today's episode of the Minimalist Educator Podcast. Today, christine and I are talking about a topic that comes up as a question quite often at the end of sessions, if we're talking about decluttering physical spaces. So we today are going to talk about sustaining a decluttered space. And before we start, how are you today, chrissy?
Speaker 2:I'm really good. As I mentioned to you before we started recording, I have slight concerns, as sustaining these decluttered spaces may not be my forte. It is a tricky one for me, but I know you have a lot of expertise and I have the theoretical idea of what it's all about. But maybe it's a good reminder for me as well about how to keep on with these decluttered spaces.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think that's a good point that you bring up, because we have to be real about, um, like, no one is going to be a hundred percent decluttered all the time. It's just really hard because life goes on and you, you know, let things pile up or whatever happens, and so I think it's important that you're just very honest. We're all honest about you know, our spaces are not always decluttered consistently.
Speaker 3:it's just not not real life it's not well, maybe for some people, but, right, maybe not for us, but maybe for some people who are just, you know, it's just the easy, really easy them, and I think that's why it's important we talk about this, because it is fairly hard for a lot of people to be able to sustain a space that you know, you put the effort into decluttering it, and that might be in your house, like a closet or a drawer or part of your classroom, a cupboard or your office or something.
Speaker 3:So it doesn't matter what space, but it is a lot of time and energy to spend cleaning it out, sorting it out, organizing it, getting rid of whatever needs to be gotten rid of, and then it's a little heartbreaking when you see it start to crumble in front of you.
Speaker 2:It is, it definitely is, but there's hope, there is hope for us.
Speaker 3:There definitely is. So I think maybe we can first talk about why it is hard to sustain a decluttered space, because I think that's just part of real life, but can you share a little bit about why it's hard for you?
Speaker 2:Can you share a little bit about, like why it's hard for you? Yeah, I think the current situation that's making it challenging for me. So, as we're recording this, I have a dual role at my school, so I work across two classrooms and then I'm also in office working with curriculum. So what happens at the end of my curriculum days is, I know I have to do a quick pivot back into the classroom and then, after I'm finished in the classroom, I don't want to leave the materials I've been using in the room for my team teacher, but I also want to go home because it's the weekend. So I end up taking the materials from the classroom, putting it in my office and going home and then when I get back into my curriculum days, I'm now thinking about curriculum and I'm not thinking about the classroom anymore. So I think it's a byproduct of me not quite working out my systems of managing my dual roles. So I think that's what's happening to me at the moment. What about for you? What's making it hard for you?
Speaker 3:That's a really good point that you've made about the dual roles, because I know that there's a lot of teachers who do like a team teach and are in curriculum or something like that. So I can imagine there's a lot of people who can relate to that, a lot of people who can relate to that. For me, I it's kind of a thing that happens in my office, so I will. I, when we were teaching in Singapore, I decided that I wasn't going to use post-its anymore because I was writing stuff down and then sticking them in my planner and then losing them and you know, and so I'm like, okay, I'm not gonna do post-its anymore, I'm just gonna have a notebook. So everything's in one spot, and that was fine.
Speaker 3:But in recent weeks or months, maybe now, um, I've shifted back to using post-its because I feel like it's um, like I'll write one to do per post it and then I kind of like a caban I think it's pronounced caban board where you like sort out your priorities by week. So what I'll do, it's like my own modified version. I'll write all of my things on my post-its and then I'll sort them out Like these are the things I'm going to do today and then, like you know, throughout the week, and so when I do the thing, then I can scrunch up my post-it, toss it away. It's a good dopamine boost. But I find that what I've been doing is, because I travel quite a bit, I will then have post-its in the places that I'm at and then they travel with me and now, like, I have a sleeve of some some stuff from our book, but in there are a bunch of post-its with some to-dos on there that I haven't resurfaced because I'm like, oh, those, whatever, they're fine, but that's where I kind of get lost in my clutter is like in the to-do list, and then my office gets a little like posted, posted it quite much, yeah, Anything can be a verb, but so that's where that's where I kind of get lost in a mess.
Speaker 3:And so then I have gotten better about like just reviewing them, like, okay, yeah, these are actually done things so I can throw those away. But that's kind of how it is for me and it seems it doesn't sound like a very big mess, but it feels like a mental mess because there's a lot of things written out that I know that I need to do and you know it doesn't have to live in my mind. It can be on the paper. Know that I need to do and are you know. It doesn't have to live in my mind, it can be on the paper.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it feels very messy and sometimes like not sustainable because I'm like I can't travel with my postage for sure, yeah, but that is tricky though, because you you basically have to move your office with you as you're moving around from place to place doing your your different roles yeah, and I think you know there's a lot of reasons why people have a hard time sustaining a space or even beginning the decluttering, but it all really comes down to like creating the habit, right so it's a new habit to have to sustain or maintain a decluttered space.
Speaker 3:So it's something that we have to work at. It's not just something that's going to automatically happen, and we have to really recognize that and figure out some ways that's going to work, and we'll talk about a few ways to be able to do that in a moment. But so how do you feel then when you come back in, say Monday, and your pile of stuff from your classroom is sitting there? But you're like, oh, I need to like weed through this to get to my curriculum stuff? Like, does that cause you some stress or anything?
Speaker 2:Sometimes it depends, sometimes it becomes a little bit of a blind spot and I don't see the pile for a few days, and that's OK.
Speaker 2:But I do share an office, so there is the potential there that I'm adding to that awful clutter stress that some people feel, to the other people that I share my office with, which I don't want to do, I don't want to add on anything to anybody else's plate, but just every now and then it does bother me, it does affect me and that's when I feel like, okay, I'm going to put aside 10 minutes, five minutes, even before I go home today, and I'm going to do some sifting through this and get rid of stuff that doesn't need to be here.
Speaker 2:Or does this stuff need to be given some feedback and then put in portfolios? What am I actually doing with this work? So I think, tammy, just listening to this, that we both have the aspiration to sustain these decluttered spaces, but for both of us there is something that's a little bit troubling for us at the moment. So maybe by the end of this recording, maybe for our pair down point or something, we can both come up with some sort of action that we want to take in the next little bit to see if that will help us with our decluttered spaces. What do you think?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I like that idea. I think you mentioned a couple of really important points on why it's important to keep the spaces maintained, and one of them being like it does cause a little bit of stress, right? So you come back because I'm that person where I need to clean up my space before I leave it because I don't want to come back to the pile or whatever, which you know it doesn't always happen. But I think when we can reduce the bit of stress or anxiety around the workplace, it makes us feel better. And then another point you made was, like you're in a shared space and I think a lot of people can relate to that as well, and so you're recognizing that, oh, I don't want to contribute to someone else's. You know how they might feel coming into this space.
Speaker 3:I wonder, too, how many people are aware of that too, like how their spaces do affect other people that they might share an office with or share a classroom with, because I mean, I've been in that role too, where I was had two co-teachers and both were very organized, so, like our systems worked well. But I can't imagine I think I would have had a great amount of stress had I worked with someone who is not as organized or just had, you know, like I don't know. It's not that our classroom was perfectly organized or like decluttered, but we just had systems for everything, and so that reduced the amount of stress I felt with the amount of stuff we had in the room.
Speaker 2:but working with someone who maybe didn't have some of those structures would cause some, some angst, and you know, not just for me but for anyone really for sure it reminds me a lot of when we were doing the reading around clutter, uh, in preparation for the book, and we found all of that research about how, as you age, especially for women clutter becomes more and more stressful for you in your life.
Speaker 2:I found that absolutely fascinating and I recognize that it's absolutely true for me because I was one of those teenagers that, like you know, you couldn't see the floor of my bedroom. That was me when I was a kid and it didn't bother me. It bothered my mum, but it didn't bother me. But now, yeah, that pile on my desk has just that pile has the potential to bother me now. So I can absolutely identify myself within that research that we were finding out about while we were writing the book. So I think, being mindful of that impact especially when we have you know, most schools are full of women if we're adding on to that visual stress for people and overwhelm, yeah, we're not helping the culture in our school, are we?
Speaker 3:Right, let's talk about a few ways where we can, a few tips where we can maybe suggest some ideas for sustaining and maintaining decluttered space, and this might even help even if you haven't started decluttering yet. But you know some ideas for, okay, I've cleaned this out, feels good. Now how do I keep it this way?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely. You know, something that has worked for me over the years is you know, if you keep moving you have to get rid of stuff. But that's quite an extreme thing to do just to maintain a decluttered space. So what are some more feasible options that we have? I think the first one is creating a schedule or a routine. So at the end of the week or at the end of the month or the end of the semester, whatever it may be, have that habit of I'm going to do, you know, a day or an hour or a couple of minutes of doing some decluttering and getting rid of some stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that that actual putting the task in your calendar is helpful because you know once we, when we see it in there, we're more likely to do it. And one of the things that I learned from um LaVonna, who was a guest in our first season, um, one of the things that she often talks about is, like don't reschedule something more than once. So if it's something that you have, so if you've got like 30 minutes blocked out, you know Thursday after school and you're like, ooh, this thing came up, I need to change that to tomorrow or next Thursday. That's the only time you should change it. So, because we know what happens then is that we keep pushing it off and then we never do it.
Speaker 3:And so we want to make sure that, if it comes up that it has to be changed, and it needs to be one of those things where it's like okay, something has really come up, not just like, oh, I don't feel like doing this. Yes, like let's try to get past that, right, because when we keep doing that, we, just we, we will never do it, and then it's just feels we just feel worse, and then it's just feels, we just feel worse.
Speaker 3:Another thing that might be really helpful is if you have a co-teacher or accountability partner or teacher down the hall whoever doesn't matter who it is check in with each other, so you can have someone to bring you, bring into this process with you, and maybe they're not even in this in the same process with you, maybe they could care less about having a clear space. But as long as you have someone to talk about it with or, you know, share the importance of why you're doing this, it makes you feel more accountable and also, just, we're social people, right? So it's important for us to share the things that we're doing with the people that are in our lives. So if it's important to you, you should share that and bring someone in with you.
Speaker 2:Just thinking about the scheduling thing as well, I was reminded of. Have you heard of that five minute rule for procrastinators? Have you heard of that one?
Speaker 3:It sounds familiar, but I don't recall.
Speaker 2:The five minute rule is if you're rescheduling something, you're putting it off, you don't want to do it repeatedly, really procrastinating on it. If you tell yourself I'm just going to do it for five minutes and then, once you get to the end of that, five minutes, minutes, a lot of the time you're in it now and you keep going. But if you, if it's so horrible and you're really miserable, you can stop and at least you feel like you've, you've given it a try and I have found that really, really helpful. Um, when I've been taking on tasks that I don't particularly want to do at that moment, just say, okay, five minute timer, let's go. And it really does. It really does help to, um, to get you over that hurdle of I don't want to do it, I don't want to do this, I don't want to do it right now. So that's, that's a good one as well. If you do hit that calendar reminder and you think, oh, I can't imagine anything worse right now, just give it five minutes.
Speaker 3:I love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that feels so non-threatening yeah right you can do anything for five minutes, it's fine yes, exactly.
Speaker 3:Something else I was reading and I found interesting is just keeping some little spaces available in your classroom office, whatever, and it doesn't have to be like a giant box or anything, but where you have like oh, this is the little box where I put things that I'm going to give to other teachers or put in the resource room. This is the box where I donate things. So I need to remove this from the school at the end of the week. So having those kind of little deposit areas that are easily accessible, which I think is so great, like a lot of people at home will have, like this is my goodwill bag and I'm going to take it to the store to drop off for donation when it's full.
Speaker 3:I think that's really helpful, too, to to just maintain your space. Cause even when you think about like I've been thinking about, you know, like getting rid of a lot of the clothes in my closet and I don't even have that many clothes, but but I'm just going through them like, oh, I haven't really worn this, I'm just gonna toss it in this pile right now, which you know, is now a bag, but it just makes it easy for me to then, in the moment be like do am I gonna wear this? Or I don't like the way this fits anymore, or something, I'm gonna put it in this bag.
Speaker 2:It's just so easy yeah, I've my last few schools. They've done like once a year or twice a year. Though what do you do? You call them skip bins, or is that just an Australian thing?
Speaker 3:I think it's.
Speaker 2:Australian, the giant, big, massive, like industrial size bins like a dumpster yeah, like a dumpster, of course.
Speaker 2:yeah, that's better. Um, so my last couple of schools like once a year they'll have a big dumpster and they'll say like if you've got anything to clear out, the dumpster is going to be there on these dates. But I feel like quite often you can get into this mode of like oh, I've only got two days, what am I going to put in the dumpster? So I almost get like a pre-dumpster box and then I'm like preparing what if the next time a dumpster shows up, this is what I'm going to put on there. So that's quite helpful too, and you can have a last check through and make sure you haven't unwisely put anything in there before you get rid of it. But it's helpful to kind of keep that in mind.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, that's a good idea, something that I think might be a little.
Speaker 3:This tip I think might be a little harder for maybe some people, I don't know, but we've talked about purposeful purchasing before in workshops and webinars and somewhere within the book and and I do this often, but it's, you know, it's it becomes a process of slowing down what you're doing and a lot of times we're kind of just in a rush, we run into somewhere, we get what we need and we leave. But if we spend a little time when we're, let's say, you need to get some new work clothes or new supplies for school or whatever, or work, um, before you actually put the things in your basket or your cart, really thinking about like, okay, I'm here to get this, so you go to get it, and you're like you're you're actually evaluating before you put it in your basket or your bin. Some people do that at the checkout right, where you put all the stuff in your in your cart, and then, when you get there, you're like, I'm gonna put that to the side, don't need that, I still have some of that.
Speaker 3:So I've seen people do that. I've done that before, but that just shows how you're being thoughtful about what you're bringing home, because whatever you're bringing home is going to take up space, or whatever you're bringing back to work is gonna take up space and you have to make sure you have room for it. So, with that, if you're bringing something new in, think about removing something before you put something new there or even checking what supplies you do have before putting in the next order, right?
Speaker 2:So unfortunately, that does happen sometimes when we think, oh, we need some more craft paper or we need some more dice or some more base 10 blocks, and then actually there's another cupboard, you know in the school somewhere else that has plenty of it that we could have made use of. So I think that's really, really important to make those careful uh evaluations before we purchase and restock things. It reminds me as well when we were talking to dan tricarico about um, about subtracting, thank you, and he was talking about the get rid of 10 things a day. Do you remember that conversation? He was saying, like if you got rid of 10 things out of your house every day, by the end of the week that's 70 things. It reminds me of that, that being thoughtful and removing something when you get something new and all of those good ideas.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and it seems for me the 10 things a day would sound a little scary. Okay, but depends, because I don't have a lot of things in my house either.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I mean, if you did it for long enough, you'd have nothing left right, yeah, right, so.
Speaker 3:But if I'm like, okay, I'm going to get a new this, so I'm going to get rid of this thing to replace it, so I feel like for me, that feels a little more comfortable, Um, and that might be more comfortable for some people too. It's like, so I'm not, you're replacing the thing that you're you're bringing in with something new and you're, you know, subtracting one thing, which I think is a fair enough thing to do as well. I think one of the just kind of thinking about maybe this as a last tip before I pare down pointers is and this goes back to like bringing people in when we're going through this kind of process is to stay inspired while we're trying to stay decluttered, because it can feel like, oh man, I really let this get away from me, and now why should I do it again? Because it's just going to get away from me again. But it's really like.
Speaker 3:This is when I feel like social media can be work to our advantage, because you can go onto some like minimalist Instagram reels or, you know, find some good articles that will keep you inspired, to remind you why it is important to actually have a space that has not so much stuff in it, cause it really does benefit our mental health, our physical health, and it's noticeable when you like you do feel physically better when you're like wow, I just cleaned out a bunch of stuff that just has been taking up all this space for so long and now I feel really good absolutely, and you know, depending on your personality type, what you, what you enjoy doing.
Speaker 2:You know if you, if you love, like challenging yourself or reaching a goal, that could be a way to keep yourself inspired as well. I know you've got your um 30-day decluttering challenge, don't you tell me?
Speaker 3:yes, yeah, so that was something that I set up for this group of teachers in um LA. They were like having these same questions, like how do we start the process, how do we keep it going. So I'm like you know what? Here's the 30-dayuttering challenge and it sounds like, ooh, that's something every day, but they're like very manageable things. So it'll. The challenge will be attached in the show notes so people can download that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Cause I think you know, as someone who likes to count how many books I read on Goodreads and do things like that I think some, you know, like a 30 day challenge would be appealing to me to kind of, you know, push me over that edge and get a little bit more motivated.
Speaker 3:For sure. So this has been a really good conversation. Again, I always love chatting with you about this. Yeah, absolutely, but do you have a pare down pointer for our listeners for today?
Speaker 2:So pare down, pointer.
Speaker 2:I think one of the obstacles that I have, especially at home, with decluttering is I'm often you know it's lovely Students buy you lots of gifts at the end of the year or, you know, Christmas or teacher appreciation, things like that, but it's not necessarily things that you would have chosen for yourself.
Speaker 2:So I have a whole selection of perfumed soaps and candles and lotions and all sorts of things that I don't want to give away because I feel like I don't want to throw them like they were gifts from my students, you know, I would feel really awful just to throw them away. So one thing that I would really like to start doing is when we have like, our school is very action-oriented and we are constantly having drives for people less fortunate than ourselves and they ask for things like dry goods and toiletries and things like that. So I really want to get into the habit of starting to donate some of those gifts that are very thoughtful and kind and appreciated but are not necessarily something or just too numerous for me to use myself, you know. So I think that's a good habit for me to start getting into is taking those not necessarily wanted gifts and finding an authentic purpose for them. What about you? What's a good pair down pointer for you?
Speaker 3:Oh, that is really. That's a good one and that's super tricky. And I'm going to kind of cheat here and play my pair down pointer off of yours based on something that we said. So, when you were talking earlier about sharing a space and being aware of how your piles might affect someone else, right, because you're sharing that space so you just spoke about being the receiver of a gift and you know they pile up but also when we're giving gifts, being very thoughtful about who we're getting something for and why we're getting it.
Speaker 3:Because you know we feel compelled you know, teacher appreciation, valentine's Day, all of those things to gift something to someone without thinking of what they might do with it. With it, right, so I always like gifting a consumable, like here's a coffee card or a pen, little thing, right, something, yes, that's usable, that is eaten, drink, drank and drunk whatever. Yes, all of those yep, yes, um, and like that makes a difference. When you really know someone too, right, so you can get the appropriate gift. Or if you know that they're looking for something specifically, and I think that would help reduce the receiver.
Speaker 3:On the other side, some of that stress like oh, I love this gift, thank you so much. I appreciate it, but I don't know what to do with it because this is not something I use all the time. So I think that it comes to like that thoughtful purchasing in general, right? So not just when we're buying things for ourselves, but also when we're buying things for others. So I'm glad that you brought that point up, because that's a real conundrum right here. It's like do I need another coffee mug? I don't't know, I love coffee or like tea or whatever, and you can have mugs at school and mugs at home and all of those things. That's fine, but you know there are limits to the cupboard space as well.
Speaker 2:So this is true. This is true, yeah yeah.
Speaker 3:So I think that that's kind of like a two-four um related pare down pointer. But now, like we had mentioned earlier that we were going to share the thing that we were going to do to help create that maintenance in our spaces, because we both have things that we do that you know kind of hinder us from staying decluttered. So what's your next step going to be to manage your end of day pile?
Speaker 2:I think I'm going to merge two. Tammy, with your assistants, You're involved in this. Sorry about that. So I think what I'm going to do, like I said before, I end up getting this buildup of materials because I just want to go home for the weekend and then, when I get back into my curriculum days, there it is waiting for me. So I think what I might do is the start of my curriculum days. The very first thing I do is just take a couple of minutes to do some tidying of that space. I think that's the scheduling part. But then I think I'll also hack into that accountability buddy situation and maybe start sending you a few little pics of my office space so you can help me out with that one, Tammy yes for sure, happy to do that.
Speaker 3:Um, I'm gonna build in pictures as well.
Speaker 3:So instead of me bringing my post-its with me and then having this weird assortment of post-its everywhere, I will take a photo when I go to travel. I'll just take a picture of the post-its that I have on my desk and bring that with me, so then I don't have you know stuff and then I'm like, oh, can't even remember where those post-its went. Was it that important and that kind of thing. So I think the picture is a nice way to reduce the amount of, well, the use of post-its I'm using, because you know it can be a lot, but also then a little bit of streamlining, because then I don't have files of post-its in multiple places. Thank you so much for this conversation, christine. I think we talked a lot longer than I thought we were going to talk about this topic, but I think it's a really important one because I know it's a question that comes up very often from people and so you know, any tips that we can give people I think hopefully will be helpful. So thanks so much for this conversation.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Some good reminders for me as well. Today's episode was brought to you by Plan Z Professional Learning Services forward-thinking educator support. Find out more at planzplservicescom.
Speaker 1:Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for more episodes of the Minimalist Educator Podcast. They would love to hear about your journey with minimalism. Connect with them at PlanZPLS on Twitter or Instagram. The music for the podcast has been written and performed by Gaia Moretti. Thank you.
